What would you say are those real barriers that we're facing?

I believe that the biggest barrier is the disconnect between where value is created and where value is captured.

And we know that the coffee industry or coffee is largely produced by smallholder farmers who face increasing climate risks, rising production costs, volatile prices, yet they often receive only a small share of the value which has been generated through the supply chain, or historically, that's been the case, for sure.

And at the same time, again, historically, sustainability has been treated as a separate program or the team in the corner rather than being embedded into the business models and into the purchasing decisions.

So if we want sustainable coffee production, we need business models that reward long-term investment in farms, in people, landscapes, rather than just focusing on the short-term costs, short-term efficiencies, short-term profitability.

We have to take the long-term view.

What about environmental?

Absolutely.