Yeah.

I do.

It's one of the best things about aging, is like, you know, at first I was like, "Oh, muscles," you know? And not thin, thin, you know, arms.

And the muscles, the all of that, the feeling like my body could work for me.

That when I needed it, it could, it could, it could, it could help me to survive.

I mean, who tells a woman that? You know, y- your body is just for adornment.

That's what they tell women.

I agree

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[upbeat music] Hey, guys, I'm Hoda Kotb.

Look, I know how busy life can get, and sometimes we all just need a moment to pause and connect.

Well, that's what my podcast, Making Space, is all about, real conversations with people who've learned how to live with purpose and heart.

Think authors, thought leaders, actors, performers.

And every time, I walk away with something that changes how I see the world, and I think you will too.

Join me for Making Space every week wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you?

Let's take a listen.

The imperfect but blessed sculpture that is Viola is still growing and still being chiseled.

My elixir, I'm no longer ashamed of me.

I own everything that has ever happened to me.

The parts that were a source of shame are actually my warrior fuel.

I see people the way they walk, talk, laugh, and grieve, and their silence in a way that is hyper-focused because of my past.

I'm an artist because there's no separation from me and every human being that has passed through the world, including my mom.

Mm.

So my guess is there was some parallel there as well, this notion of how awful it is to be a little girl and to be called ugly or whatever.

Well, I think that sometimes you stifle the voice of other people.

And so a lot of people, I always find it really interesting when people just sort of expect a 13-year-old to just... speak their truth.

I was speaking at my daughter's school, because this is the best way to describe it really simply and fast, is this.

There was a question that someone asked me at my daughter's school.

I did some panel discussion.

And the question was, when did you realize you were that girl? When did you realize you were that girl? And here's my thing.

But with the novel then, did you feel it sort of liberated you then somewhat? You could be a little bolder with the characters in a way that you had to be more circumspect when you were writing your memoir?

Could you explain what it was based on? It's

based on the Agogea tribe of warriors in Dahomey in Benin, West Africa in like 1854.

And they were all female army unit that would go out and fight neighboring tribes and, you know, Yoruba tribes.

Now, you know, the controversy is there was a lot of controversy.

you know, involved with the Algogeo warriors because they would have slaves.

Okay.

I think ultimately that is what maybe people had problems with.

Have you ever heard from anyone from your past after that book came out?

What is, what is it about?

It is about a 13-year-old girl named Nova who has an abortion, who gets raped and has an abortion, in, um, Union Springs, Alabama.

Alabama has the strictest abortion laws, and the doctor who performs the abortion is now on trial for murder.

So it is definitely To Kill a Mockingbird.

Mm.

That's the best part of it.

Your life is yours.

You realize that, you know, it's, it's a quote that it- it's been running through my mind is, I know it's sort of morbid, but on your last day on Earth, the definition of hell is your last day on Earth, who you became meets the person you could've become.

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Mm.

How did you feel reading that?

Um...

You know what? I, when I look back at, um, little Viola, little Viola, I never felt safe.

You know what? Even worse than that, I felt wrong.

I felt like whoever was building me up there in the sky just did everything wrong.

Put me in the wrong family, put me in the wrong circumstances, didn't make me pretty enough, made me too Black.

Every aspect of me was wrong.

Okay, ready? "I wanna say yeah, but what am I saying yeah to? Another heartache? Another time for you to walk out the door with another woman?"

How you go about unpacking any character from that period onward.

I will say that one of the things that I always do is, first of all, they say in acting you have to be an observer and a thief.

The observing part comes from life, and the thief probably comes from looking at other actors' work.

But the observing, I always have to think of something in my life that I can compare it to.

And so what did you think of...

I was lost because I didn't understand the woman who would allow her son to stay with a man that could possibly be molesting him.

And just say, at least he's mentoring him.

pretty damn good.