So as a teacher and educator, have you ever experienced self-doubt in your playing or in your teaching? Is that something that you might be able to share with us? And how you overcame that?

No, you know, when I was at Eastman, I mean, when I was in high school, you know, you're fearless kind of, you know, you just play.

But when I was at Eastman, I was probably, I'd never really taken lessons.

And everybody else had studied with the principal players and major symphony orchestras, you know.

So that was kind of intimidating for me.

And then, you know, I became really self-conscious there.

It took a while before I could really play.

Yeah.

yeah

so but but that doesn't mean that you should do any of those things because I mean I always suggest that you get a degree no matter how well you play trumpet even my student that taught Caleb Hudson he wanted to get his DMA and I said well I said you know he says well don't you think I'm good enough I said well no you're more than good enough I said but you you know you have a family And you want to get a job right away.

My job is to advise you what is the best route for you to take or at least another possible route.

I will gladly take you as a DMA student.

But I suggest, what else do you like? Well, I kind of like composition a little bit and theory.

I love theory.

Okay.

And this attitude is really...