Mm

... kind of emerged.

One was just like, "Okay, let's just give up.

Like, we, we all need to have it now," and the other was, "No, no, let's keep ourselves safe and protect as many people as possible." And just the way, um, and then the way grief informed both.

I think that really has entered the story in a profound way, um, as well.

So it's, this is a society, like a global society that has experienced deep loss.

Has that informed your, your crafting of this world at all to know that that's happening in real life on our planet Earth right now?

Yeah, sure.

[laughs] So what's your take?

take?Oh, my take.

Okay.

Well, for everyone listening, I wanna tell you that when Soman sent me this week's topic, I groaned and I told him I didn't think it was a good idea because it would be too depressing.

[laughs] And he pushed back and told me that our job was to bring hope.

Yes.

And I said, "Maybe you can do that." [laughs] But I'm gonna try.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And when that came out, like, because it was so popular, I think it attracted, like, mostly positivity, but the negativity I sucked in like a sponge.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and I think it was, like, critiques of things I liked when I was, like...

You know, I was 23 and I wrote this book, and it had all my, like, dorky, little cheesy or maybe unrealistic loves in it.

And that's my wife.

Yeah, well, I'd love to hear that, first of all.

But yes, I think it's more romantic than any book that I've written.

The romance is definitely integral to the plot.

At the first, like right from the start, this character finds out that she's going to fall in love with a man who will bring her death, which is very ominous sounding, right? And she, at that time, is married to someone else.

So I think from the very get-go, it's like, what are we going to do here? How is this drama going to unfold? But yeah.

The romance is very tender and careful.

You've got a subliminal message here.

I- is there any new world-building muscles that you did to s- to really stretch the imagination for Seek the Traitor's Son, or what?

Yeah.

I think with Seek the Traitor's Son, I wanted to keep the story's focus really intimate on the two main characters, but the world as a backdrop, I wanted to be very big in scope and scale.

So I thought a lot about developing religions and different political factions, and I really ...

I think what helped is just that it took a long time to write this book.

I started writing it in September 2019, and I tried out different genres, and I, I just kept playing with it.

And, and anytime you let a work sit for a while, you ...

So what is it like looking back at the first success and now looking at where you are now? What is that like for you?

Mm.

Um, there's an absurd turnover here.

Roughly one fourth of the YA audience ages out of reading it every single year, theoretically, and one fourth is brand new, 'cause they age into it.

Um, that YA was ever a huge category is probably thanks in no small part to adult readers, but with those readers moving to other categories for their books, we're back to where we started with YA, which is a tight area of the market that requires commitment and creativity.

And you can still make it work, and you should if you care about young people and literacy, which we do, but you have to be ready to hustle.

At least that's my impression as someone who's been out of the YA space for a while, so I'm really excited to hear what you have to say about this, Soman, um, as someone who is just now [laughs] stepping into YA as opposed to middle grade, um-

Oh my God.

Um, I try to be playful, honestly.

Uh-huh

... my editor is always pushing for the information to come sooner, and I was like, "No." 'Cause, like, we can't overwhelm.

But I think also making world building feel, even if it's not related, make it feel like it belongs in the same place, and that there's a kind of emotional or psychological urgency behind learning it.

Those are the things that, like, help keep it memorable.

'Cause, like, it's not just-

Yeah

...

but I think I wanted to play with kind of the way that, uh, the way that we expect him to be because of his physicality, because of his skill in fighting, you know, [laughs] um, and the way that he actually is.

And I wonder, as you look back at your very early beginnings as a writer, what about your approach to the craft remains the same today, and can you give us an example of what's different of how you approach going about world-building?

I think it's funny to start your career with a hit because it's your first book.

You learn a lot by writing your first book, your second book, your third book, I think even more than you learn later on.

It's just like a very trial by fire.

For that to be the most famous work that I have is, I know, just because when you're just starting out, you have a lot of learning to do.

So I think in the aftermath of the Divergent series, I was really focused on growing in the areas that I felt were weak in that series, which I, it's hard 'cause I don't wanna insult them.

I'm trying to be in a place of peace about them, but I think I was really working on world-building complexity and keeping that stuff grounded and maybe exercising a little more restraint in emotional moments, and I was working on my prose and my antagonists and just everything that I could think of.

Is there any part of that creativity that is cathartic, or what kind of emotional journey would you say you go on when you are coming up with the kinds of worlds that you craft?

Mm-hmm

... um, even when I technically stayed on social media though I wasn't, like, really there.

I posted, and I didn't look at responses.

I, I couldn't do it.

There was just too much negativity.

And like you said, Victoria, I'm not gonna let a space take bites out of me.

So I also disappeared in, like, a less obvious way though, which is that my personality disappeared.

[laughs]

Yeah.

Um, but so I, I've always been, like, trying to get back there, and I was like, so I try every idea as YA, and this one is just a funny, um, a funny choice for that.

But, uh, [laughs] I think during that draft I discovered the fever, which is such a huge world building element in this book.

So to explain, for those who haven't read, the fever, the, this futuristic Earth has been overrun by this fever.

Um, everyone who catches it dies, and half of them come back to life a couple days later, regenerated and with, um, special abilities usually pertaining to memory.

So there's, like, the enemy nation that has embraced the fever and worships it as a god, and then there's our main character's country, which is much smaller, and they are committed to quarantine.

So you can tell that I wrote this during COVID.

Right

It, do the doors open more easily because of that?

Oh, yeah.

I've been on a bit of a journey with Divergent.

I've written about it extensively [laughs] in my newsletter recently, but for a long time, the, I got exposed to a lot of negativity because of Divergent, and that's just a factor of its reach.

It just, it was so widely read that of course, like, the positivity and the negativity both increase.

And so I, in a defensive way, thought, "Maybe I'll just start agreeing with people, and I'll put the books down before they can," which I think is kind of an experience a lot of people have had.

It's, well, if I'm pointing too, then no one's pointing at me, and that's easier to process.

Would you like there to be fallings out in book clubs about this book for any particular reason?

... you better explain, if you can, Veronica, the world in which this story, Seek the Traitor's Son, is set.

Yeah, so it's a little bit like, um, it's two nations, but one is much larger than the other.

It is an empire, actually.

Um, so that's the Talisar.

They, uh...

Everyone is afflicted with this Fever, basically.

Um, the Fever kills everyone who gets it, and then it brings half of them back to life, um, with special abilities that are usually related to the past.

Mm-hmm.

How do you feel like you got better at world-building over the last 15 years? Is it, like, did you take classes? Did you read other people's work? How did that happen?

Yeah, well, to get better at writing, there's two things you need to do, and one is read books.

And not just read them, because you can kind of passively absorb something without learning from it, but, um, to read it really thoughtfully and to look at how it's constructed, um, and to make note of the things that you admire.

And the other thing is just to practice, so the more stories you write, the better you'll get at the art of writing.

So I think just through repetition, I've gotten better, and I know what kind of questions to ask myself, and I've observed more about the world, um, around us, so it's easier to, like, extrapolate from there.

And, um, you know, time is a useful teacher.

Like, how do you write small inside of a big world?

I think you have to focus on the intimacy between the characters.

Yeah.

And when that came out, like, because it was so popular, I think it attracted, like, mostly positivity, but the negativity I sucked in like a sponge.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and I think it was, like, critiques of things I liked when I was like, you know, I was 23, and I wrote this book, and it had all my, like, dorky, little cheesy or maybe unrealistic loves in it.

Yeah.

And when that came out, like, because it was so popular, I think it attracted, like, mostly positivity, but the negativity I sucked in like a sponge.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and I think it was, like, critiques of things I liked when I was, like, you know, I was 23, and I wrote this book, and it had all my, like, dorky, little cheesy or maybe unrealistic loves in it.