Mm.

You'd pioneered, at least here in the Asia Pacific, a new gender advisor's course.

You were including, uh, gender perspectives in the Talisman Sabre exercise of that year.

It was an very exciting to be around those who were tangibly, practically implementing WPS insights.

Uh, so even though we viewed ourselves, of course, as partners, uh, the US and Australia at that time period, there was a sense in which we felt there was a vigor and an energy among the Australians that we were hoping to catch fire from.

Of course, now, today, the situation is very much changed.

I think you know that the Secretary of War, as we now call him, Pete Hegseth, crowed about how he was going to dismantle WPS or ignore its legal requirements under US law.

I guess the next question is how do we take this academic exercise as it was and turn it into something practical? So, you know, what might the differences be between the way Australia might deal with this versus how you think, Valerie, America might deal with this in the next couple of years?