
Ulli Appelbaum
Brand strategist and founder of First The Trousers Then The Shoes Inc., author of The Brand Positioning Workbook
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Sep 23, 2026
Breaking down the fundamentals
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Ulli AppelbaumGUEST
I spent the first 10 years of my life in Africa, then spent the next 10 years in Brussels, Belgium.

Ulli AppelbaumGUEST
So I grew up speaking German at home, French in the school system, schooling system.

Ulli AppelbaumGUEST
And then I moved to Germany for the first time for my studies, for the third year of my MBA program.

Ulli AppelbaumGUEST
So the weird thing, Benny, is I'm more comfortable being a foreigner abroad than a German in my home country.
8 MINS LATER
18:01
But I'm curious into, you know, what precipitated that first step to move into this space with the positioning workbook and there the methodology as well?
Ulli Appelbaum starts with science (not why): Brand Positioning Workbook author on the science of brand association and putting it into practice
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Ben NormanHOST
Is that the way you sort of see that? You come at this from, I'm going to look at the science and evidence and then bring that to the reader, as opposed to taking an opinion and then trying to evidence it.

Ulli AppelbaumGUEST
So I started with everyone else, opinion, golden circle from Simon Sinek, cultural trends, you know, being players in culture and stuff.

Ulli AppelbaumGUEST
But as I grew, as I learned, as I developed my own practice, I realized that there's a lot of science out there that no one uses.

Ulli AppelbaumGUEST
And the funny thing is that six, seven months ago, I did an artificial intelligence analysis using chat gpt using jim and i using claude using rock and i gave them all of them a list of like 20 30 books that are popular in marketing and ask them to rank them and map them based on their scientific validation and their application to the marketing world and what you notice is that 95% of the marketing books that you and I read that are so popular out there are based on nothing but the author's opinion, storytelling, for which he or she uses a couple of case studies to post-rationalize his principles.

Ulli AppelbaumGUEST
There are very, very few books that are basically purely science or evidence-based.
14 MINS LATER

Ben NormanHOST
I don't know if you have any ideas on why you think marketers gravitate towards this.
