How do you see that in your work? On one hand, it's about collaboration, but on the other hand, it's also about making sure we build up our knowledge base, we build up our capabilities locally here in Europe.

It's very tricky how Europe research field works because we are allies.

At the same time, we are competing against each other.

Like, for example, the research funds that are available in Europe is a lot of based on commissions, for example, Horizon Europe program.

We also have national ones.

But then it's always a very fine line where are we aligned with other research institutes or universities or where we are enemies.

We are competing against with each other.

How do you see that balance between policy-driven change versus bottom-up innovation change, both in developing the innovations, but then also what you mentioned is a very hard step towards adoption, which is very often where innovation breaks or where change breaks in that context?