And so you're naming that the clinical task is to flip that on its head.

yeah you know i go back to what i said earlier is when the dark cave unlit truth crashes into the secret sexual basement there is this excruciating clawing for ground happening as i mentioned earlier and there's also this desperate Breath happening, that's what's happening in room 20 that you're naming is Sue Johnson, right? The late Sue Johnson, emotionally focused therapy, right? Would say the health of relationship is to pursue, pursue.

However, the interactional cycles that are happening in this from our lens are withdraw, withdraw, pursue attack, attack, attack, pursue, withdraw.

I mean, it's all over the map.

And right there, how we name that for them and help metabolize that helps and stabilize that helps bring them into creating new reclaiming a pursuit pursuit towards intimacy.

And, and we meet that person wherever they're at.

It is not a forced intimacy.

There's a vibe coming from the person that something really important is happening in this moment.

So I would recommend anyone listening to this to make sure that you've already listened to the three-part individual episodes I did about the 22 rooms.

I want to move into the sound from there, what you're naming.

I think it's a nice connection point here.

The sound of deceptive sexuality trauma.

You know, ever since I was a little girl, you know, I always bring in these little stories from when I was younger, but music was in my home.

Like my mom would play piano.

She would play more upbeat piano.

one, two, three.

It really is always an honor to meet with you and I'm looking forward to our chat.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

I feel, as you said, selfish in a sense because we get to hang out and, you know, go to a deeper layer with each other and talk about the model, which is so rich and thick and we could go anywhere with it.

You and I often say we could probably spend hours talking with each other about the model, about healing, about those impacted, etc.

And I love how you create That's safety for me coming into a podcast.

Your simple note of it's just us talking, which is really beautiful way of inviting somebody to land.

So, you know, you asked me to do the breath again for us to land together and invite everyone else out there listening to just take a moment and settle in.

So I'd love it if you're willing to just lead us in that and go where you want to go with that.