For you to see, I think I was listening to another podcast that you're on where you gave a really great analogy about maybe like a tree farm or so, like for someone who maybe isn't as familiar, can you maybe provide that analogy or share that analogy?

Yeah, I can't even remember where I came up with that one on the spot.

I think that might've been Jake's podcast, but yeah, it was, it just made sense in my head at the time.

And so what we're measuring is if you think about the Achilles tendon as a rope, Within that rope, there are multiple hundreds, thousands of other smaller ropes all going in that same parallel direction.

And what UTC measures is the stability or the alignment of those ropes.

And so I've taken it and basically given the analogy of the tree farm where if you have a tree farm where you have all these trees in a nice straight aligned row, where if you're walking through them, it's almost just like a path, you know, every five feet or so.

And the trees are really strong, really tall, very straight.

What characteristics are important to identify? What's important to you? Think

So you have the consumers in the middle, like, which one do I listen to?

It's tough, man.

And again, I'm five foot seven from the Upper Peninsula.

I grew up pouring concrete with my dad.

So I don't say that to pat myself on the back.

I just say I support doing hard things and having some pain with stuff.

Spending some time in the NBA obviously shifts you to more of the conservative side.

So if you're thinking about, you know, five to 10 years in the future, where do you think tendon training is going? What gets you really excited about the future of your work?

So do you have kind of like a go-to battery of tests that you just automatically go to? Is it really individual specific? Let's start to work through maybe some of those assessments that you're about to expand on.

Sure.

I think the easiest one for me is just to talk through the Achilles.

I like the patellar tendon and there's obviously some people who think the patellar tendon are just as important, but Achilles often elicits a visceral response sometimes.

The test that I use for the Achilles or the muscle tendon unit triceps or calf complex, I view these first two qualities, the strength endurance and neuromotor control, which we haven't quite talked about yet, but for the calf, they're important.

We do a heel raise endurance test for that.

And so we're basically seeing how many heel raises can you do on one leg to a one second up, one second down tempo before your technique breaks down or you just tap out.

Now what, what am I doing? Can you expand kind of on your operating model? Like that helps maybe your decision tree then, like how do you then start attacking the issue or the problem?