I don't know, Tree, did it feel like some people were more visible than others back in those days?

That's true.

A lot of us were more open about our sexuality than others, but...

I found the acceptance here to be not too bad as a white person.

And what I think of mostly is when we were doing the same-sex marriage case, My wife and I were on TV quite a bit, along with the other couple involved in the case.

And at the time, we were known, and we'd be walking around, and one day we were walking up Water Street, and we saw a man cross the street, and I said, he's heading towards us.

And Lisa said, yep, he is.

And so it was up to organizations like the Gay Association in Newfoundland and to actually teach the government about what was going on and teach these medical professionals because they were getting this regular communications and educational information from the mainland where a lot of this was happening and from across the country and around the world.