It's like, so you evolved, dude

... well, I was trying to achieve that, and the...

So with Karma, I started doing the [growls] shit, like, on record in Karma, but before that, it was just utilitarian.

I was j- only live trying to hopefully replicate in s- somewhat the, uh, the sound of layered vocals.

Um, and then it became its own thing.

But I tried recording it with Karma, tried recording it with, uh, The Harvest Floor.

Harvest Floor, we came a little close to nailing it, but it still sounded just like, like paper being ripped or something.

Interesting.

Metal health will drive you mad.

Yeah.

The first love I ever had was Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata from a record my parents had.

And then, you know, I think that was like what really made me really get into music.

So it always came from an emotional point.

I think the reason why, I mean, metal flows to my veins.

It just always has.

not a thing.