right?

And so that culture has always been that way.

In order to achieve a result, you have to do the same thing, same time, same place, you know, same way, right? Yes, you're switching up your legs and your arms in the days that you do it, but if you want results, you have to do it in the same way.

I still think that it's overlaid with this idea of discipline.

And I think that we have a very fraught relationship with discipline that doesn't make a lot of room for devotion because devotion feels soft in some way.

And I think sometimes we don't want to be soft.

I also think that devotion for many people has a connotation related to religion, right? But we can think about how are we devoted to our family? How are we devoted to our children? How are we devoted to our garden? Right.

But I just, I ask you this, I think every time I interview you, but like, how do you keep it safe? Like, I don't know why that.

right?

And so that culture has always been that way.

In order to achieve a result, you have to do the same thing, same time, same place, you know, same way, right? Yes, you're switching up your legs and your arms in the days that you do it, but if you want results, you have to do it in the same way.

I still think that it's overlaid with this idea of discipline.

And I think that we have a very fraught relationship with discipline that doesn't make a lot of room for devotion because devotion feels soft in some way.

And I think sometimes we don't want to be soft.

I also think that devotion for many people has a connotation related to religion, right? But we can think about how are we devoted to our family? How are we devoted to our children? How are we devoted to our garden? Right.

But I just, I ask you this, I think every time I interview you, but like, how do you keep it safe? Like, I don't know why that.

And it's like been really interesting to watch our community, other communities, my friends just kind of go through this process of completely burning out on this path.

You don't want to wait until you burn out.

Did you ever burn out? No.

Luckily, thank God, I actually found these practices of yoga nidra and deep relaxation like the week that I was in my first job, my first real job at producing films.

So I didn't have that experience, but I watched other people and continued to watch that happen.

And so I think that if we think about this idea of rest as part of our wellness hygiene, you know, the same way in which you would get a massage every week, the same way in which you get your nails done, right? The same way.

And just think about it as part of your hygiene.

You had to earn it.

So I'm curious to hear what this text is holding for us.

Thank you so much for that beautiful question and shift.

You know, ritual brings us back to self-remembrance.

it may seem as though, well, how could something like ritual bring us to self-remembrance? Because I'm not talking about the big production or performance of ritual that we sometimes see.

I'm talking about the moments that are not Instagrammable.

I'm talking about people being able to recognize that there are transitions in the day, starting with the sunrise, when the sun is at its highest point and obviously the sunset.

And that if we take those particular moments, just minutes at a time, seconds at a time, And we bring our awareness and our presence in those moments.

I'm wondering if you can speak to us about that.

And how do we then transform them transitioning from mindless habits and actions to mindful, to making them mindful and bringing that sacred element.

Yeah, I think there's a couple of ways in which I would answer that question.

And I think that Yogacharya O'Brien alludes to it in that quote, is really this one of the limbs of yoga, which is pratyahara, right? Is pratyahara actually...

allows us to move from the outer practices of yoga, the yamas and the niyamas and the asana, the posture, to the inner practices of yoga.

Pratyahara is known as the withdrawal of the senses and Swami Veda Bharati added withdrawal of the senses to re-assimilate into your true self.

And so in this world of distraction, as Yogacharya had already named in that quote, there's so many distractions right now that are pulling our senses outward.

Everything that we look at, everything that we hear, everything that we remember, we're in this world of sensation.

So would you share that story with our listeners?

Mm

... will, will not go back.

And at the same time, I, I have a very vivid memory of one of the people that worked at the hotel that I was staying at, like six or seven years ago, I think one of the last time, maybe it was 10 years ago, and they wanted to show us the village and give us a, a tour.

And I remember him telling us about, just very matter-of-factly, about how someone had just passed away.

Mm

...

the practice of yoga, and luckily found my way to the practice of Sri Vidya and the lineage of the Himalayan masters.

And one of the first things that I was introduced to in that lineage was an internal ritual, which is known as Manasa Puja.

Say more.

[laughs] Well, luckily at that time I had one friend, after asking many friends and telling them, you know, about the experience, and he said, "Oh, I know exactly what happened to you.

I need to take you to this spiritual bookstore." And we walked into the spiritual bookstore, and he loaded me up with a bunch of books.

He loaded me up with Way of the Peaceful Warrior, with Celestial Prophecies, with Illusions, with Khalil Gibran, and I started reading these books, and my mind just started to shift in a way where-

... of the purpose stone ritual right here and now, that would just make my day.

Amazing, yes.

I love the purpose stone.

So I, I teach a lot about sankalpa, creating an intention, and about dharma, uh, finding your, your kind of life's calling, your soul's calling.

Hmm

... which means truth.

And so I love this idea of carefully observing the truth.

In order for us to carefully observe the truth, we need to slow down.

In fact, we need to pause.

And my understanding of ritual in my life is that ritual happens in the pause and in the transition spaces, and those can be pauses that we create or they can be pauses that we observe.

They can be transitions that we observe.

so I don't know if you-- w- would you like to take a moment just to e- explain what that means and, and m- what that might look like in moments of the day?

And I'm just wondering the, how you feel and sense into the impact it has to connect to both our an- ancestral lineages, our- Uh, like you said, our ancestors who are well and, and [laughs] we feel like the power and strength from, and then also connecting to our ancestral lands and the soil and the elements of our ancestral indigenous places.

Yeah, I think it's very important, and what I would say is that's why when I was in my 20s, I went to go and live in South Africa.

You know, I didn't know at the time, um, where my people were from.

I know now because of DNA testing, uh, you know, a little bit more.

Um, but I wanted to put my feet and I wanted to live on the continent of Africa, and I had an opportunity that came through for me to be able to go there and to live.

And it was supposed to be a three-month journey, and it turned into basically a two-year journey, um, because I just w- I just felt at home the moment I set foot.

So this idea of the motherland, and I talk about this in the book, um, about going back to the motherland if you happen to know what the motherland is for you, and to be in the water, and to eat the food that's grown in the soil, and to hear the songs, and to see the dances.

Mm.

What about the other two, external ritual and ceremony? How do they fit in here? I feel like we've kind of touched on it, but let's get really clear.

Okay.

And I think I should say a little bit more about internal ritual because internal ritual is really more of you are visualizing or feeling, sensing the ritual space that's inside of you.

So this might be a practice where you are visualizing the space inside the cave of the heart.

And in the cave of the heart, you find an altar.

Okay.

And at that altar, you as yourself or a smaller version of yourself is making an offering at that altar or tending to the altar, right? Maybe there's an inner garden inside of you that you are visualizing in meditation.

And yes, it

And I wonder, is this what you're touching on right now, that those openings, the liminality in the everyday? Yeah.

Yes, it's all about the everyday, right? Because as I often think about, we're not living on a mountaintop, right? We're living in the world.

At least the people that I know and myself, I'm living in the world.

I have responsibilities.

I have people in my life that I take care of, that I tend to.

I have aging parents, you know, all of those things that we do as householders.

And the reason that I wanted to bring this book forward is really because ritual, and the name of the book is Living Ritual, it connects us to slow wisdom.

Kind of, how does that work for you? Yeah,

Can you give us just a little bit of that trajectory?

Yeah.

So, you know, interestingly enough and, and thankfully [chuckles] I began my yoga, uh, journey and my yoga study at the same time that I got into the film business.

And so there was this entry into production, and at the same time I was practicing yoga.

And so this is before we all had cell phones.

I mean, I had a cell phone that looked like a brick.

But we didn't have cell phones.

Where's your head at with our connection to nature?