How do you do that?

Yeah.

I do self-help in community now.

So as with the book club, we're doing books, um, in kind of reading, reading along together.

So I feel like if something is having an impact on people, I can usually, um, I, I would usually know it because I can hear that their stories are changing or hear that they are having different behaviors maybe or, um, letting go of habits or starting new habits.

So I suppose ultimately it's having, um, something that will have an impact on you, but then that will change how you behave.

I think, um, s- uh, Jeremy's book actually, the 12 Levers, um, we're going to do it for our book club read-

What does the popularity of self-help tell you about the moment that we're living through right now?

But yeah, Tony, do you want to tell them what it's called?

Yes.

Let me pull up my proper notes.

So we are launching Turn the Page Retreat.

So as Claire said, it is an online retreat talking about the beauty of offline.

Because as you just said, Claire, we live online, don't we? But as creatives, we need to make sure we're spending time, enough time offline and kind of refilling our cups.

So we thought we know so many brilliant people, don't we, through Substack.

feelings of what feels nice to hold in our hands and how we feel accomplished in creativity whether that's watercolor cross stitch that's really easy to do or knitting or any of those things really and of course reading like we're going to be hopefully doing a bit of reading together and maybe a little watch party we said as well didn't we

And I was like, what, can

I? And he said, you can.

Not everybody has a job where they're sworn at all day, every day, where you're not getting up to go for a wee for hours.

And I take responsibility as well for how I looked after myself or not during that time.

But this job was not good for me.

For another podcast, another day, it's like, why did I choose a job like that? And why do we choose these things? It's because your nervous system is used to certain things, right? And that's what feels safe in a weird way.

but when I left the job and then I was sitting at home when I say sitting at home by myself thinking about what do I do for work now what do I do for life now that was that was when everything really hit home i suppose and that was when that was my dark night of the soul it wasn't actually at the job because then you're just you're just you're just kind of getting through the day and you're just doing what everyone else is doing and then that was you take that you pause and you take and you stop i'm just reading ikigai again do you remember that book about and as they talk about something called the sunday neurosis and it's when people are really busy and hectic all the time if they if they ever have a day of doing nothing suddenly they have like an existential crisis because it's like when I don't have to be doing something, what do I do? So I was like, so if I don't, I'm not, I'm not an editor now anymore at the Mail Online.

And if somebody is listening to this right now and they can recognize themselves and what you're saying about, um, feeling trapped and like knowing that this isn't the right life for them, what advice would you give them? And what books would you tell them to read?