My sense is yours probably wasn't as formal formalized as that yeah just what what what did the process look like were the tools involved we use insights profiles for example um yeah that would be really helpful

yeah so so the time where we actually became employee owns the the makeup of our board of directors was that we had three vendors effectively and two non-vendors that that sat on the board of directors and Shortly after we became employee owned, we worked with an external consultant, again, supported through Scottish Enterprise, but a lady called Liz McCormack, who's been exceptionally supportive and a great asset to our business throughout the journey.

But we ran a number of workshops as a board of directors to really try and pass over a lot of the historical knowledge from the vendors, how they've built things, and also raise the level of the new members of the board of directors.

So that started and there were a series of workshops where we kind of unpicked everything to do with our business and challenged the norms and how we looked at everything.

Another part of that was we then all completed NEO assessments, like Insights, like DISC, and what have you.

But we completed these assessments, and I believe that Liz and Tony looked at them.

A number of other people across the business also completed them at the time.

Is it easy to put down on a piece of paper, more difficult to deliver? How do you go about that, Tom? How do you deliver that?

So I want to first of all start with the macro, and then I go with the micro afterwards.

So I think at a macro level, I think let's talk about one of the things that I talk about is this idea of convergence.

I know you've spoken about this idea as well of technology and personality and personal interaction and I think One of the things that we're seeing now with respect to, we'll just start before the creation of any discrete IP or anything like that, or before we even get into the idea of the existence of information to be protected, let's look at the interaction of individuals with, you know, fill in the blank, social media, the internet, anything like that.

With the information that we're able to collect now, we're seeing, I mean, I think we've seen it for years, but now especially, in the way that information is being able to be used, we're seeing this transformation of this, we'll call it a consumer demographic to a contributor demographic, where before, I think the idea was you go You know, you can go into a physical brick and mortar store, you pay cash for something, you take it, you leave.

You know, you haven't really contributed anything to the operation of that store.

But now with the operation of online shopping and with respect to a lot of the analytic tools that are out there, Anytime somebody interfaces with a website or with a social media page, anything like that, they are contributing to that website's understanding of its operation, whether it's providing an IP address, whether it's allowing a cookie to be installed on their system, anything like that.

And those are in many respects, that is what consumers appreciate at the end of the day.

How do you look at this from both the conventional cybersecurity world and from the dark web and from the major challenges? How do you see that from a macro perspective?