and is a professional who is exploring the interface between Buddhist practice and psychotherapy.

Well, thank you for having me here today.

It's been at least six years since I spoke here, and maybe as many as eight.

The pandemic happened, and the other big thing for me was that I had a stroke four years ago.

So that was a drag.

My husband was visiting his mother for her birthday in Arkansas, and he couldn't get home for four days.

So I drove myself to the hospital.

That's

But little did we know that that might be our future, right? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

That was actually a really fun project because the team was so small.

You know, with giant, massively multiplayer online games, the budgets eventually grew so huge.

It was like the same thing happens in Hollywood when you have a massively expensive movie.

And everyone has to get their fingers into it because they're so afraid it's not going to make a profit.

So everybody is putting their two cents in.

But, Tom, didn't you start out as a programmer?