How do you kind of marry that with holding them accountable to kind of that strong business outcome?

Yeah.

really hard and nobody should fool themselves otherwise because you can't incentivize people the same way.

You don't have necessarily the deep pockets or the huge bonuses.

You don't have the supplemental resources to promote people and put people underneath them always.

Incentivization is really key.

And that is usually around the reward.

So then after 16 plus years at Women's World Banking, what has leadership taught you about creating impact that lasts beyond any one person or any one leader?

yeah

the veteran who isn't going to get a ton of separation, but he's also going to body people off.

And you probably trust his hands.

You probably trust Godwin's hands as much as anybody's on the team.

You know, he's that good at catching the football.

So, and Baker, you know, like a lot of guys, he tries to read body language.

Baker says, with God, when he just puts the ball on him, just put it right on him.

Not at this

I mean, this is, these are the lengths that they're going to now to, again, as you said, or as I was saying, kneecap the refs.

Well, and it's a weird thing that like with the New York Times, for instance, one of their reporters, one of their journalists is being banned from this conference, but not everybody from the New York Times.

They actually did grant credentials to somebody who is one of their, I think, one of their Berlin correspondents who can cover this.

But we're still not clear exactly what it is.

that got the other journalists banned.

They're not – the Treasury Department hasn't commented.

Who knows? Maybe he had one line in one story three months ago that somebody didn't like, and that's the complaint.

I think that it doesn't work.

That's

the disturbing part.

I think, again, I think there's a method to the madness, if you will, if you want to call it that.

But there's a method to this, and that is to sort of work the refs.

This is something like, I'm going to complain about everything there is to complain about.

And I'm afraid it probably works in some instances where if you complain enough about journalists, we go after journalists enough.

It makes journalists think twice before they start reporting on the next story.

I think that it doesn't work.

This is where the Penguins play?

Where the Penguins played.

And it was, like, the original rink where they, you know, back in the '60s they built it.

And it was up, it was this, until they, uh, built the new arena, PG- PGP or whatever it's called now, PG Paints or whatever, um, arena a few years ago.

It w- this was the arena that the Penguins played in.

And it used to be really confusing.

You'd go up this elevator and you'd get out, and you have to go up, like, these series of steps, and if you got turned around, you ended up in the wrong place.

Oh, yeah.

That's right

... remains an, an excellent, as good as there is, studio analyst.

So I'm pulling for Tomlin.

I like, I, I like Tomlin.

I, I wanna see him do well.

It'll be, uh, it'll be fun to watch him in this new role and, and, um, yeah, I...

Uh, there are guys, Rick, who I didn't think would be great at TV who turned out to be pretty good.

Are you, uh, I don't know, like, by the time we've done, uh, this podcast, you may have already watched or will watch, but do you plan to watch, have you watched any of the, the, um, Quarterback series, even now or before, but the one specifically with Baker Mayfield?

in a while and uh yeah i'm got we got some event you got some events coming up we got uh a few things to chat about so i wanted to get you on and uh kind of talk about those it's been i don't remember last time we had you on it's probably been like a year or so but I figure, uh, for the listener, the new listeners that we have that maybe didn't go back and listen to all the episodes, shame on you if you didn't, but why don't you give a quick overview of what my OFO is, how it started and all that good stuff.

Yeah, just real briefly, you know, it was a project that kind of, um, was presented to me, you know, I did some time in the army.

I was with the 101st airborne.

Did a couple deployments.

I was an artillery guy, so I was just used to blowing stuff up.

And, you know, came back, and then I'm selling pop, you know.

And I was working for Coca-Cola at the time.

yeah,

So what tensions were already bubbling up at 60 Minutes for Pelley to make those claims? Wow.

I think, first off, there were a lot of doubts and questions about Barry Weiss before she even started because Barry Weiss had zero experience working in television news.

So the fact that she came on and clearly had a mandate to shake things up, they were going to question everything she did.

The fact that she came in and started making some changes to stories.

There was one particular example of last year where Sharon Alfonsi, another well-respected correspondent, did a story about the Seacott prison in El Salvador where a lot of Venezuelan men were being deported, facing harsh conditions within 24 hours of it running.

Barry Weiss pulled the plug on that story and demanded that they go back to the Trump administration for more comments, even though that story had already been vetted, clearly.

The story eventually did run, but the fact that Barry Weiss stepped in to maybe influence or sort of rework a story that 60 Minutes felt was ready to go, cast more questions about her.

How does what is happening at 60 Minutes fit into changes that are happening at the network?

Yeah

...

I, I get it.

And it's the NFL, man.

And the other thing that concerns me out of all this, Rick, i- is, is, and this is always comes up whenever you talk about stadiums, is how committed is ownership to the area? And when you look at the Rays, like we don't know.

We, why would we think that they have this strong commitment to Tampa Bay th- or these deep ties to Tampa Bay? Because they don't.

And I'm not suggesting that they're looking to, to already move it, but, like this isn't, these guys aren't from here.

Yeah

No, it's not.

That's a legit pick.

I te- so I covered John Tortorella.

I covered him, and I can say that I think I got along with him as well as anybody.

Eric Earlenson covered at the same time, uh, for the Tampa Tribune, and he treated us very well.

Interestingly enough, he treated the beat writers better than he did everybody else.

He treated the beat writers better than the columnists, better than the TV people, better than, um, out of town people.

What happened?

Where, where are the discrepancies?

Well, I, I think, you know, Herb, I, I think the, um, the thing I wish I'd have seen more of was how dedicated Herb was to his wife, how d- how, what a nice person he was.

Just to give you an example, when I first moved to Minnesota, I met Herb.

He asked me if I had any kids.

I said, "Yeah," and I said, "I have a son who plays hockey." "How old is he? Is he..." And my son was probably eight or nine at the time.

He said, "What's his name?" I said, "Sam." He goes, "What's your address? I just need it for, you know, for my files or whatever." And I said, "Well, okay." Two days later in the mail I get this big tube, comes in the mail, and I open it up and it's a print of a painting with Mike Eruzione scoring the winning goal.

So have you, have you ever met Gretzky?

I have.