So how do you actually start to change that? Because, you know, to use the oil tanker analogy, changing the culture in the organization is going to be hard, particularly in some of the organizations you mentioned.

Yeah.

Look, I think it's a really good question.

And I think a lot of leaders at the moment are struggling with the answer to that question.

I think ultimately, it comes down to reframing of, I think, what are known quantities, right? So let me give you an example.

So instead of saying the targets are based on cost cutting, right, that same premise can be articulated through value creation.

and as soon as you reframe it within the context of value creation you start to be able to open up more kpis and measurable metrics that will align much more deeply with successful ai pilots okay so things like uh reducing staff downtime for example right or you know making sure capacity of the staff is is fully utilized you know those are know through view to one lens there they can effectively be you know cost cutting views viewed through another lens you're creating value right value to the company and actually the long-term value of shifting to value creation means that those cost-cutting measures are going to be permanent not temporary okay so then the question becomes what is it starts with the problem it doesn't never starts with the technology ever you know successful pilots will always start with the problem the pain points you know what is the operational pain how much does it cost who owns it what happens today what decision would be like to improve and then you start to define success in those measurable terms so the value creation terms so these can be things like reduced downtime lower chemical spend fewer truck rolls um Fewer emergency call-outs for repair teams, faster leak detection, for example, for oil and gas companies, better asset utilization, lower energy use is a big one, reduced compliance risk.

So can you unpack that a little bit more and help us understand where you have seen ways to get people more engaged with driving this action?