How much would it cost to replace that? And how old is this infrastructure? Are we talking 75 years or more?

In the oldest cases, yeah.

You've got some plants, including in Ohio, built in the 1950s, and they were built for a different era.

They were not built to flex with the current demands that they're being asked to do because their higher costs are what are called marginal suppliers instead of baseload suppliers.

Natural gas over the last 15 years, which Ohio knows about, has really displaced coal as the primary baseload fuel, which has meant that some of these really old 50-, 60-, 70-year-old plants – that were built for yesterday's baseload are now being asked to turn on and off and surge with, let's say, a summer heat wave.

They call those peaker plants, but a lot of these old plants were not engineered to be able to do that job, and so they become less efficient, and you get a downward financial spiral and repair and maintenance spiral.

Now, on top of that, These are pretty bad for our air quality and our health.

How is that even plausible?

But, again, one thing has to suffer at the expense of something else.

Former State Senator Bill Seitz said, has a big solar array on his home, I know, and he's a big proponent of traditional energy.

So I don't think you have to root for any one outcome.

I think people should be practical about it.

But if you look in a clear-eyed way, it's not just the fuel source.

It's how quickly you can build it, at what price, and what tool fits what niche in the system.

I think one big solution that's overlooked at data centers is not building just new things.

We have a garden hose when we need a fire hose.

Is that wrong?

Half right, half wrong.

There for sure is data centers that are driving low growth.

Part of that is artificial intelligence.

Part of it's not.

There's also new factories coming to Ohio like we hope the Intel plants.

As people also electrify their homes with electric cars or switch their furnace to a heat pump, there's going to be more growth overall.

What about the environmental pushback from all this? Is that slowing things up? Is that what's costing us money?

Is that wrong?

Half right, half wrong.

There for sure is data centers that are driving low growth.

Part of that is artificial intelligence.

Part of it's not.

There's also new factories coming to Ohio like we hope the Intel plants.

As people also electrify their homes with electric cars or switch their furnace to a heat pump, there's going to be more growth overall.

Why isn't that happening, especially with an administration that seems so friendly about getting rid of all the gridlock and bureaucracy and doge and all that stuff that fits right in? Why isn't that happening?