How does bank financing sit behind a private credit lender and why might a bank prefer that exposure to lending directly?

Well, I mean, principally because the regulatory authorities are allowing that to be a corporate loan and not be a real estate loan.

So when it is a corporate loan, it draws less capital than a real estate loan.

And so that's kind of fundamentally number one.

But it's also, frankly, the case that if you have a lender out there who's doing first lien credits you know, in the sub 70% loan to value range, right? And let's call it, you know, even a 75% loan to value, right? And their advance rate is 75%, then the math is that the underlying loan lender is at 75%, but the loan-on-loan bank is providing a 56% loan-to-value, right? And so it's just safer, right? And then you get the cross nature of the underlying loan.

And so when I look back, we had a $15 billion book going into the global financial crisis at Deutsche Bank of back leverage, and we didn't lose a penny.

right? Because it was predominantly first lien.

How are the extensions we are seeing today genuinely different from the extensions of, say, 2009 through 2012?