that i be a follower and do the thing that they wanted me to do and over time for me that has certainly evolved into something much more collaborative so i'm curious for you what your trajectory was around leadership like from a 30 000 foot view

Yeah, I love it.

So starting out as kids, especially on the sports teams and everything, I think that was watching our coaches and having our coaches help us out.

We wanted to do things with the team, either during our practices or outside of our practices.

We had some really good coaches growing up as kids.

And then when I joined the Army at the tender age of 17, in fact, I turned 18 while I was in the Army at basic training.

And going through my early years, it was a lot of commanding.

What inspired you to write this book and specifically poetry? How does this all like link in with the army guy, you know?

Right

...

I had to do all this, and it came in bits and starts, so it's not a one and done.

It may not be...

It'll be maybe one in 100, whatever it is, right? You gotta look in the mirror and say, "Okay, w- who's the person that I want to be? What is that person? Who is that person? How do I get there?" There are a lot of different resources out there.

You know, for me, it's very beneficial being in the military 'cause the resources are there.

It really takes a push from your friends and family to get you moving in that direction.

Yeah.