to do these things.

Now, I'm not going to be heavy handed and say, you need to use this solution or you need to apply this type of architecture, but I need to show that you can do these controls.

And then my team will come in and we'll assess how effective they are, but you have to be doing them.

And It was a lot of traveling around the world to meet with people and explain to them why this was important, how it impacted their other businesses too, because they were interested in that.

And I started at McDonald's, the very first security summit for the company.

I would fly people from all around the world to Chicago.

And we'd have a four or five-day session, and it was focused in on what was the strategic security expectations for the following year, how my team at corporate was going to be applying that, and then what I needed from the markets.

And also, how has it changed who takes the job? Have you noticed any sort of changes in that?

You know, what are some of those things that, that you've done to partner with the venture community and some of these early stage startups, um, that keep popping up?

Yeah, in fact, I even started, um, a sort of entrepreneurial arm with the, uh, the companies that I worked with.

Like starting back when I was a CISO at Kimberly-Clark.

I created this group, uh, that ended up being called the PIE group.

And PIE stood for Portfolio Innovation Enablement.

And basically I would invite, um, you know, five or six startups to come in and pitch to me.

And, um, and I would bring my entire leadership team to the table.

Yeah.