[laughs]

And just lis- and they, and because they, I couldn't see their faces, I just heard their voices and, um, they just sounded like they were from a different world talking about a different world.

Of course, it was the same world, but it was imagined completely differently.

And there were kind of sacred stories.

There were things that were told over and over again, usually about people who had died.

Um, and so I, I slowly over time sort of interrogated some of those stories.

And there were particularly stories that my gran- my, my dad's mother told that were very important to her about her, uh, the early death of her mother.

How did the travel help you realize that this house had to be alive?

It does bring you very much into the present.

Yeah.

I, I, I think that's right.

I think it, it's a kind of, um, you know, I think there's a kind of an enforced, um, removal and contemplation that, um, um, you know, you, you kind of understand a little bit, you know, the ancient traditions of, you know, um, being a hermit.

You know, taking yourself off and, and, and this sort of enforced silence, um, con- you know, and, um, contemplation.

I mean, there's all kinds of swimming.

I mean, I, I, I'm gonna spend the rest of my life avoiding being in a swim squad, which, you know, I used to swim competitively, and A, I hated the swimming pools.

What, what changes have you noticed in the ocean since, you know, you were very young to now?