Uh, you know, where did you go from there, where you sort of took the next step in your career development where, uh, it might have been another position in that café, or you, you moved to a different place in the world of coffee that, uh, allowed you more opportunities?

Yeah, no, I actually stuck, uh, in that job for, uh, until s- 2000-- end of 2005.

But, uh, we gradually opened more stores, so I kind of gradually went from being just a barista to, uh, running the store, uh, pretty fast, and then running two stores with a friend of mine, and then we opened a few more.

So then when we had, like, six stores, I was more, uh, into training baristas.

I, I quickly understood, you know, when I was running just the one store that, uh, it was very important to, uh, start implementing systems, because, uh, I could hear from customers that, you know, when this other person was working, the coffee didn't taste as good as when I was working or, or vice versa, you know? So, um, we, we quickly kind of started to see the, a need for a good system to train people, uh, and also to keep them, you know, uh, so that they didn't leave fast.

So, you know, making it fun to work there, uh, being a little bit social after work, stuff like that.

One of my bosses, uh, called me, I think that was maybe January, February '99, so six months after I started, and asked me if I wanted to compete in a regional, uh, barista competition in Oslo.

What would you want coffee shops in the next five, ten years to really focus on in order to evolve that, to, to improve that handoff and, and create more thriving for coffee?