How did this come to pass?

Well, we had a group of folks who were thinking to themselves, you know, look, we see in something like Special Olympics, people like Americans, Lions Club members, local police officers, they're responding with goodness and dignity all the time.

Why can't we encourage other people? Why can't we see ways to treat each other with dignity just because we're Republicans or Democrats, because we have different views maybe on immigration or taxes or education? Isn't there, so, you know, we were sort of puzzling over this question and my colleague, Tom Rosher said, well, what if we scored people? And I was like, well, that'd be interesting.

And the next thing you know, it took us about two or three years, but we built this index.

He led this effort.

And all of a sudden people started to look at it and what we thought they were gonna do, Michael, is they were gonna, we thought they were gonna say, oh, look at Trump or look at Biden.

Look, he's contemptuous.

Speak to me about the scale of 8 through 1 or 1 through 8.

Did you always want to work with the Special Olympics? Did your parents really encourage you into a life of service for humanity? Just tell me some about those roots.

Yeah, well, thanks, John.

Thanks for asking.

I love talking about my mom and my dad.

They were social entrepreneurs before there was a term for social entrepreneurs.

They were innovation machines.

They solved problems in the culture, and rather than cursing them or bemoaning them or shaming someone for having caused them.

So the Dignity Index is based on one

Mm.

Families that can no longer talk together, not because they really differ that much on the issue, but because they've become so inflamed by anger and hostility about the R or the D. It's leading to m- massive distortions in our capacity to solve problems.

Uh, so this is an issue that Americans care about deeply.

Uh, they...

We, we did a poll on this.

They, they care about it almost as much as they care about the cost of living.

Uh, and so they're looking for leaders who will define for them a path forward, not to give up, as Governor Moore said, commitment to their constituencies, but to give up hatred and contempt for the other.

How do you see service fitting into this broader call that you have for restoring dignity in our politics? Is there still the same hunger and space for it?

He's also the chairman of the Special Olympics.

Differences of opinion are not the problem, Bret.

They're the solution to the problems in a democracy.

We get everybody's opinion, and then we decide on whose opinion is the best.

That's the way it's supposed to work.

But it only works if we listen to each other and we try to optimize the ways in which we solve problems.

That requires that we treat each other with some degree of dignity.

... about America to the next generation?

What do you mean by that?

Look, I think democracy is, uh, synonymous with America, and you have no America without democracy, and you have no democracy without differences of opinion, right? That's part of the solu- differences of opinion are not the problem, Bret, they're the solution to the problems in a democracy.

We get everybody's opinion, and then we decide on whose opinion is the best.

That's the way it's supposed to work, but it only works if we listen to each other and we try to optimize the ways in which we solve problems.

That requires that we treat each other with some degree of dignity.

I think the founders knew this.

I mean, they understood this very deeply.

... about America to the next generation?

Like, looking at the people who lead our government in certain administrations or whatever, how do you not censor, but also tell them to treat other people with dignity when a lot of what they're saying and doing is the opposite of treating people with dignity?

Well, we're just trying to...

Like, what I like to say is there's a new issue.

So, so you, we might differ on what we should do on climate change, right, you and I.

Uh, but we can discuss it, and you can say, "Well, on this t- this moment we shoulda done this," or, "We should be funding more for schools," or whatever.

Um, uh, on this issue, we should have discussions.

W- is it appropriate for the mayor, the governor, the president, the senator to speak this way? W- how do you defend using this much contempt, Mr.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and I'm, again, I'm not saying this is the absolute, you know, right and wrong.

I'm saying when you start to see, like, the map in your mind, like you were just describing to me this map in your mind when someone comes in and takes the life of your children, your family.

Mm-hmm.

And how you would move from being a, maybe a peaceful or, or a happy person down, down, down into the descent of hatred and venom and retaliation and, and, and that, that's a map.

We all know it.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.