they make money.

Oh, this is like him doing an actual lecture, like him as him, not like any of the characters from South Park, where he talks about like, you need conflict in a way.

It's like, then this thing happened.

And because of that, this occurred, or this was not able to happen, right? There's a contrast.

And so when you're building your brand awareness into these longer form messages that you need to have filter through whatever platform you end up choosing, that needs to be consistent.

But the delivery mechanism can be different for each thing.

I play with memes a lot more on Instagram stories and definitely TikTok.

Or posting with some kind of like smarmy intention, if that makes sense.

And, and so it's, it's a huge challenge-

'Cause we're gonna lose our job because we didn't hit the numbers that, that even when I was at the Bridge Conference recently during my, my launch week last, uh, you know, it, uh, it was in late July.

And so Generosity, we're at Spectrum as a company that produces...

It's the nonprofit sector's first dedicated educational gaming studio just for the sector.

There's other places that produce games.

There's other nonprofits that have been doing, you know, game, game elements for a long time now.

But I have not seen anybody who's focused their energy on fundraisers, executive directors, board members, volunteer managers, uh, program designers, uh, in-house finance teams, the, the inventory management at the food bank, right? Like, all of it.

[laughs]

So what problem did you see that caused you to create this?

Well, a-around, around last year, I also had the, the honor of joining the Alliance for Social Trust with it, which is an initiative of the Aspen Institute, and, and I was explicitly asked to join their work group on bottom-up trust.

And what I think I'm ultimately trying to help address here is that we need a better way to support practice-based evidence.

So what I mean by that is, is we have a lot of, of problems and obstacles that are holding our true potential back in the nonprofit sector.

And the issue is that for a very, very long time, we've taken a top-down approach and said, "Here are the best practices.

This is what you should do." But, and it's not even a fundraising issue.

I could talk about fundraising at length, obviously, but, but program design, uh, volunteer management, communications, uh, to your community advocacy.

I love it.

Nice

... with, uh, Giving Tuesday, did a g- a leaders gathering.

And so if, uh, i- it, you know, most nonprofits can't afford to go to even a regional conference, you know, might be pushing.

I talked to one of the members of the network yesterday and she said, "Look, I got pitched a $300 conference.

I don't have that in my budget." And, and, uh, and she even got shamed, Julia, by a, by the, the keynote speaker responded, she told me, that they were like, "I can't believe that you can't invest $300 into yourself and it w- it's a guaranteed return." That's not the type of circle of trust that we wanna have, right?

Oh

... okay, entry level all the way to a little bit more deeper conversation.

But when I, Julia, when I talk with you, if there's something that we can design together that we could turn into a prefab booklet game or something that works for a workshop or works for a board retreat, we're gonna have that as a distribution part of the network.