So what made you leave in 2011 and what made you want to come back?

Yeah.

So we, you know, I started off in the consumer goods industry and ended up coming to Simmons as a brand manager and went through the ranks and, you know, had a wonderful career and, you know, really framed up a lot of, you know, a lot of my core beliefs.

What I found was is that in durables, because your purchase cycle is longer, it requires a different way to approach marketing in that, you know, especially like on a mattress, your typical mattress cycle is a 10-year cycle.

Not that we prescribe to that, but that'd be normal.

And so if you think about it this way, like if we're marketing and we're selling this month and we've got, what are we in August, September of 2020? 2026 on a 10 year cycle if I don't get that sale they're not coming back till you know August of 2036 and so you got to get it you got to get it done right so you know we had done a lot of really great work I'd say the 2000s of framing up you know merchandising approach and you know you know streamline the brands and getting into swim lanes and Value proposition, establishment, a lot of great stuff.

So what happened was Serta and Simmons were combined.

What was it like for you as a CMO to inherit things that consumers know so well? Do you change it? Do you modernize it? Do you keep it the same? What did that process look like?