We've got to save the planet.

So it's interesting.

I don't really mind why people do things as long as they do things that will put us in the right direction.

But I think there is nevertheless the conundrum, as you put it, that we've got to do a lot more than simply swapping out to EVs, for instance.

Not that that's not a good thing to do, but we have to do a lot more than that.

And what we have to do is learn to live in harmony with the natural world again.

And we need to do that much more deeply than in fact in some ways we've ever done because we've never lived as a species in a world where the natural environment that we're part of is changing as rapidly as it is already and is going to do for the rest of our lives.

you got a couple of concrete examples you can put before us?