I mean, back then how they got along and maybe, and how they're getting along now.

Well, back then, I mean, I think it took a while for them to kind of get their groove, which because dad was, you know, he had Dave Hodge and Dave Hodge was kind of dry.

And I think Dave Hodge throwing that pen was, you know...

I think he was ready.

He wasn't, I think he was ready to move on Dave Hodge.

And, and so when Ron came, you know, it just took a while for them to kind of get there, you know, to kind of get, I'm going to see their acts because it wasn't an act, just kind of get their, their back and forth together.

And, you know, they were, they, they, they, They like in the summer, they didn't see each other.

him.

Is your father racist? This is gonna tie into Poppygate.

Poppygate.

No, he's not.

If, you know, they, I would say, you ask me is Dad judgmental? Dad's is judgmental on people, and his judgmentalness is if they work, is their work ethic.

That, that, that's what he judges people on.

Um, uh, he, he just doesn't understand and can't stand able-bodied people who can work and can get a job that don't.

Because the lowest point in Dad's life was after he retired in 1970.

Mm.

Uh, uh, with, with a man with, for a father that casts such a large shadow, what was that like for you?

You know what? It was, it, it, it really was kinda nice in the fact that the, like, like, like, you know, Tuesday nights we would go to Chestwood.

You know, Wednesday nights we would go to Westwood.

Thursday nights we'd go to Ice Land or the Hershey Center.

Um, you know, Mondays would be, you know, we'd go to the Victoria Village.

So that we were kind of going to the same rinks at the same, at, at, at, each day at the same time.

So the, the kids would come up and the parents would come up and they, for the first maybe two or three weeks, and get Dad's autograph and sign.

[laughs]