[gentle music] A few weeks ago, I sat down with Tim Carpenter on the podcast, and somewhere around the hour mark, I asked him what beauty in a photograph actually means to him.

So the one I will go back to, and, you know, it's in the, it's in the first book, but it's gonna be in the second one, too, is I, I, I agree with...

Robert Adams said that, you know, he pretty much equated beauty with form, uh, with sig- what a lot of people call significant form.

And I, what I think is that, and this is gonna be all in the second book, uh, I've been talking about, you know, us creatures and what the, what a phenomenologist would say.

Both the philosophers and the neuroscientists, by the way, would say that this, this creature is in an almost constant state of imbalance, and it's always looking to make... to balance it, to get a better grip on its inputs, you know? Um, we're, we're, we're in a constant state of frustration, and when, when our disequilibrium becomes a little bit of equilibrium, the body relaxes for a moment, and that's fleeting and it's furtive, but the body says, "I got a control on this.

I got a hand on this," you know? Like, also, this is why we like being in our homes and stuff is 'cause, uh, you know, all of those inputs are calmed, you know, and that's why we can feel calm, uh, that we can't out in the world because of all, you know, the, the, the diversity and the, the, the speed of all the inputs.

But, but okay, so what I'm going towards is that, like, this creature needs form.

Yeah.

I just don't understand how that is, how that works for him.

Yeah, a lot to say there.

I get the feeling that Charles Koch could care less who the governor of Iowa is.

You're not going to stop.

I think Bloomberg says he's worth $71 billion.

So I just top 25 richest person in the world.

So whatever, something like that.

So what needs to be true in order for that to remain a story and an issue?

Yeah

...

I was like, so now, and this is true to this day, you know, like I, uh, and now even with the digital that I'm editing much more quickly, but like 150 rolls, 100 sheets or whatever, I come ...

And I'm like, yeah, it's, it's some trees, it's some water, it's some roads.

I don't ...

You know, I'm not really remembering any specific subject matter that I, I'm hoping for.

So that w- that's the major turn in it, and I f- I, you know, I just felt like I really need to work on understanding the form of this thing.

... for someone like that? What are, what are the first kind of cues that you could give them?

Yeah

... you know, and they're best friends.

Some, like, I'm ...

They're people I'm, I've n- just meeting for the first time.

So for me to ...

For, like, my professional relationships and personal relationships, 'cause now I know all these publishers who have ...

If I see a quality project, I can send them to Artieri or send them to, uh, Clint or send them to whoever, you know-

Wow, that's amazing.