How do you characterize it, and how did we get here?

Kia ora, Ross.

Thanks for having me.

Well, the short version is that we've spent about 70 years trying to make it as easy as possible for people to get to things by car.

That was the 20th-century sort of transport planning approach, and it came from a pretty good place of thinking, well, if there's a convenient machine to jump into and drive wherever you need to go to quickly, that will let people get to a whole lot of stuff quickly and easily.

So kind of a good concept.

Forgot about all the people that can't use cars, which is about a third of us, including children, elderly, disabled people, anybody that can't afford a car, and also ignored the, the physical reality of cars, which is that they take up quite a lot of space.

Mm.