yeah and what was the difference between the two like validating and selling how would you approach validating and not selling it like not pitching it

if you so if you try to sell uh i think that the behavior of the founder would stop when the user is um is visiting the landing page and has signed up or has started the trial.

And then the founder will just stop interacting with the person and go after the next person to try to sell as well.

If you try to validate, I think what you would want to start with is asking questions, basically, like understanding the context of this person, then suggesting the solution, and then trying to get the person to use it.

And then on the next few days, ask a lot of questions about the usage, about like, how is it helping? How is it not helping? Like, what's the...

trying to understand the core pain points of the user and trying to understand the behavior.

One very good example is what we did with Outrank.

that's cool it's cool so one more thing is you've done both like you raised money and then you've done you've done bootstrapped and you're one of the few people who can actually compare them honestly and what what are your what are some of the drawbacks of each and what are some of the benefits of each