Are heat pumps just for people who live in detached family homes where they can do pretty much what they want within reason, or are these heat pumps for anyone within reason? You know, how, how do we sort of explain who this technology is for?

If we wanna go into the, the marketing side, then I would say heat pumps are freedom energy sources for everybody or e- freedom energy for everybody w- because of the resilience part.

But that's the joker side.

So the... you can use them, and the Swedish do that, for example, in your sauna house.

You could use the heat pump, an air-to-air s- heat pump in your sauna house.

Then you can go to a, to a smaller single-family house.

You can go to a big fam- single-family house.

[laughs]

So, where were you when you came into EU energy policy? What were your thoughts? Did you know what you were entering into? What kind of...

I had just started with the European Heat Pump Association.

Literally, I think I was here the first time in 2007.

And it was a very loud event.

That's what I remember because some people were playing music continuously.

Oh, wow.

But after that, I think Yousef has always been a stock-taking person.

Or maybe something that surprised you the other way