[laughs]

And to my surprise, uh, Professor Holler, he was really nice to me, uh, partly because he, I guess he, he, he likes the fact that his concurrents didn't make me work, you know? So he treated me really nice, and he helped me to, to understand certain things that I didn't, uh, I had not known before.

Uh, for example, I went to him and I said, "Uh, please, can I join your class?" And he said, "Play something." The only thing I, I could play anymore was Don Pasquale because it's not high and it's, it's just a melody.

And my first teacher had told me to play Don Pasquale very strict rhythmically.

And I started to play the Don Pasquale as I learned it.

[singing] And he stopped me immediately, and he said like, "What, what are you doing? It's, it's a melody.

You're the soloist and the conductor has to wait for you." And for the first time, I recognized, oh, I'm, I'm allowed to make music in an orchestra.

So what, uh, what, when did you work with, uh, Wynton?