Share a little bit about how this relates with your work.

Yeah, absolutely.

Is this on? Yeah.

Yeah, we do sort of global scale ecology, which is a bit of an oxymoron really because ecology is famous for the sentence it depends and essentially we're in every field in every garden in every ecosystem the ecological dynamics and findings tend to be a little bit different but what's really exciting is with the emergence of these remote sensing technologies we can get this global perspective and then what our approach is is by we sort of combine it with the the on the ground findings of millions of scientists around the world citizen scientists, academic scientists, NGO scientists, by pulling all the insights that they've sort of pulled together into one global picture and sort of correlating it up with that satellite imagery, we can then see how the structure of ecosystems varies in predictable ways across the planet.

So we can get beyond that, it depends, to start to see the to understand the drivers of the context and understand how ecosystems vary and how the structure of those ecosystems vary and how the vulnerability and resilience of those ecosystems change across the planet as well.

And it gives you this really unique combination of localized understanding combined with global perspective.

That's the goal.

Is that right? Yeah.

As a scientist, what do you draw on when it comes to spirituality?

Yeah, I could not agree more.

I feel like our society over the last century or few centuries, I don't know how long, have become very...

We live from the neck up.

Essentially, we've become quite analytical and the hard science has sort of replaced a lot of the benefits that we used to glean from a spirituality perspective.

And I think we've often shut the door to that.

And when I was 26, I think I was in the... peak moment of that crisis in my life.

Tell me a little bit about that moment and what you took away from it.

to the soil and in between we're part of this sonic energetic vibration of life i'd love to hear you just riff on um and let's also throw your full subtitle in there because it's crucial on nature's echo harnessing ancient feedback loops to heal a changing planet talk to us about nature's echo

Yeah, so, you know, all those physical feedback loops that I've described, creating the universe, creating the planet, creating life, creating human societies and creating climate change, they're all just natural, physical processes that once you start noticing them, you know, you can't stop seeing them everywhere.

But those same exact loops continue to propagate forever.

through us through our consciousness through our through our perception of reality you know i maybe i think i'm in fact this is a true one i i'm pretty worried every time i enter a dance floor i'm worried about my dodgy dance moves that only makes me more insecure about my dance moves which makes me dance worse which makes me more insecure which makes me dance worse which is more insecure Or you may be struggling with sleep.

It makes it, you get anxiety about sleeping.

It gets harder to sleep, which makes you more anxious, which gets harder to sleep.

Everything in our world is these sort of, everything in our version of reality is created by these loops.

It's about redistribution to the people who are closest to the solutions that work, and in many cases have worked for centuries before they were forced into extractive jobs by the concentrated wealth and power and global conglomerates that are pursuing agendas that extraction but now we can all use this tool to put our dollars our vote our voice our agency towards restoration and regeneration and the restore tool can directly connect you with local groups that you can support either as Tom says by buying their honey their coffee um their different products or by investing in them directly let's talk about the institutional level you are the founding chair of the board for the un decade on ecosystem restoration and What can we do as individuals to try to nudge the collective institutions like the United Nations, the World Economic Forum, the World Bank and even NGOs? What can we do? Obviously, we need to use Restore, but what would you say? How do we exercise our agency as global citizens?