His answer is simple and was served up with a concrete example.

Well, I think you can usually see it, you know, if people tend to look at the brand, but I tend to look at the company is not separate from the brand for me, you know, so I'll look at it and I'll go, well, how are they behaving? What's their business model? How are they structured? How are they making money? Were they giving the money to, you know, you clearly don't believe in purpose if you reverse your point of view to become financially more precarious.

Target being a perfect example, right? Like, okay, we were really benefiting from our association with certain groups.

And now that it's maybe politically not as tenable, now we're just going to change our mind.

So yes, you were doing it purely for the money, right? I was at an awards dinner last night where they were actually awarding awards to certain companies who were still practicing, you know, who had not dismantled their DEI initiatives.

And one of the companies actually that came up was Costco.

It Costco was actually up for an award, right? But they actually said, we don't accept awards.

So that's when I started thinking,

Where is that located, Theo?

Oh, this is actually...

It's called Red Bike and, and, and it's in Cincinnati.

And friends of ours, you know, and, and they have...

It's a, it's a huge challenge obviously for bike sharing, uh, because it's a car culture and the cities are built for cars.

It's the thing I always say to sustainable fashion companies or whatever.

I said, "I don't think you're gonna be able to persuade people on ethical and moral grounds.

Mm.