Um, will you take us back to how this idea first emerged? Like when are, what year are we in?

Oh, mm, it's a good few years ago.

So from my perspective, it was that I had read Will's, um, book, The Worry Book, um, when I just came out of university.

Found it really helpful in terms of kind of around anxiety, but also around the way that OCD thought processes work.

Um, and I had always found writing really helpful for processing kind of the, the impact of OCD in my life and my emotions and my feelings, and I sort of thought, well, maybe, you know, could I write something? Could I...

Could...

God, could you use this? Could you use pain? Could you use this suffering to bring out something good? Um, and I was writing in a coffee shop one day, and I do think it was a God thing.

So if people are listening to this and wondering whether OCD shows up in their family system or in their teams or in their own lives, how would they notice it? How would you describe what OCD is, and how would you help people to be more accurate in identifying that in their midst?