Mm-hmm

... and s- and for me, it's like, yes, yes, what you said, Ken, is correct.

It's empathy.

But then, like, I just...

There's just this fire, this fierceness that I feel about...

I don't like the word defending.

It's not a defense, right? And, like, I think in a lot of work, of nonprofit work, we call it deportation defense.

Wow.