Mm.

When they're getting on base, they're bunting, and they're int- hitting and running.

These are, these are somewhat lost arts in our game, and what we're seeing from those teams is they're able to bunch hits together and then, and then the occasional power from time to time, [clears throat] to, to score multiple runs.

These teams are capable of doing that.

They're just not singularly reliant on it.

And so I think that's the analytics that these three teams have relied so heavily on, and it's no mystery why they're, they're still in the, the, the ALCS and now the World Series for the Milwaukee Brewers.

Their, their pitchers are excellent.

Plus Trick or Treat radio just for your-

Like, like, how good is the Brewers' bullpen?

The, the Brewers' bullpen is excellent, Paul.

I think, I think the distinction between San Diego's and the Brewers' is that San Diego may have two of the best relievers in the game in the back end.

We talked about them, Adrian Morejon and Mason Miller.

They also have a handful of other guys who complement them.

What the Brewers have is maybe six to seven guys deep in their bullpen that just create major problems for offenses.

We, we have a ton of left-handed pitching out there, and guys who do different things.

Sean Burke was awesome.

How do you, as a front, as a front office, how do you balance the fact that you may need this, you know, there's a chance we're going to need this guy this year to make the playoffs versus the fact that, man, you got six years of this guy ahead of you as well.

Well, Jeff, a lot to unpack there.

You know, the reason that the Toronto Blue Jays are still somewhat in this right now is on the strength of the right arm of Dylan Cease due in large regard.

He's put up a tremendous season in year one of this contract, certainly making it feel as if it was tracking towards being a value for the Toronto Blue Jays.

as he will be squarely in the Cy Young discussion come season's end.

I will say typically when we sign these types of deals, whether they're four or five, six or seven year deals, oftentimes the presentation to ownership is count on the fact that at some point the pitcher is going to be injured and probably will miss an aggregate about a year of this contract.

So when we look at these types of deals, we're not dividing them over the number of years of the deal, but we're dividing them by the number of years minus one to actually get an average annual cost of the deal because it's just so highly likely that the pitcher will suffer an injury at some point.

But is a continual decrease in velocity necessarily a bad thing? How do you judge that as a front office?

Uh, what do you, what do you want to accomplish, I would say, after you fire somebody? Like, say you fire somebody, that week after, like, what are you looking for? How do your, how do you want your team to look? What do you want your manager to say? Like, h- what's the process there?

there?Yeah.

So Kevin, I, I, I don't know about from your, your career, but I, I always really, and I, I'm, I'm not trying to dodge the question, but I, I really tried to avoid making these types of decisions, especially this early in the season.

It, it was Billy Beane who shared this with me when I first got an opportunity to work in baseball.

He said, "You look at the season in three two-month segments.

In the first two months be as patient as you possibly can.

Really evaluate your team.

How does a front office manage the year leading up to a potential stoppage? Uh, can, you know, do you have to have it in the back of your mind, or is it just, do you almost have to just put blinders on and go look, it's about winning in 2026, and whatever happens in 2027, uh, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it?

I'm like, "What am I training for?" Like, obviously I wanna be the best version of myself, but I like this collective approach that like, man, I wanna call one of my teammates and be like, "Hey, did you get in the gym today? Did you hit? Did you do this?" It sucked, you know, when you had to wait till, you know, middle of February to sign.

Well, and Kevin, I'll add a few things to the, your comments, which I think are spot on, is, you know, when we're signing a guy like you or we're signing a guy like Todd, part of it is because of the leadership, the experience you have, the championship pedigree.

So if you are s- coming on board February, you know, a week before spring training, you're not able to really spread your knowledge and your wisdom to as many guys and have as big of an impact.

And also, I'm-- my guess is you guys find that very fulfilling to, to help mentor guys.

And if we're saying you can only start that process when you meet them in spring training, we're, we're missing an opportunity.

Uh, another thing I would just add to the conversation is the fact that every club is investing so much in their spring training facilities.

I think a lot of you guys now are coming down well in advance of spring training to work out there because the facilities are just so great.

So how do front offices evaluate that? And you know this, right? I'm not speaking for your group, but there are some front offices sometimes that miss, where like, "I'm pretty on the outside," and I'll hear like, "That guy is, is not good news." And it's like, "Why did they acquire him?" And someone will say to me, "That team doesn't do good enough homework on makeup."

How hard is it to make that many trades in that compressed a period without your head exploding?

I think you have to have some of those lined up, to say the least.

Like, some of those have to be on the doorstep.

Uh, oftentimes what's happening in these trade discussions is you get a trade to, let just, let's just say the 10-yard line, and then the other team says, "Hey, we would probably do this provided we don't get this other player who we prioritize a little bit more." They won't necessarily tell you who that player is in that situation.

So just hang tight.

We then would try to, like, accentuate the urgency to do our deal right now, so we would probably put a clock on them and say like, "Well, if we don't get this deal done in an hour, we're going in a different direction." They call you an ho- you know, minute 56 and say, "Okay, we're ready to go." So, in other words, I guess I'm saying that some of those deals are really teed up to just push over the finish line.

It's not as if all of those negotiations started, you know, 10 to 20 minutes prior to the announcement of the deals.

We're gonna be this kinda team." I mean, how often do you actually make a cultural shift around what is the reality of the trade season and on the back end of that?