Mm-hmm.

And then started to see, like, my world started to change a bit, and I kept going.

I became a director of programs for a global nonprofit.

I went into, uh, management consulting and started working in the government and contracting space and doing strategic communications work, and then I got into heavy project management and said, "Hmm, [laughs] this is awesome.

This is interesting.

I can do this." But at the same time, I still wanted something a little more, and I wanted to kind of build that legacy out that was beyond what I was doing for other companies.

Mm-hmm

... a, a chat of some sort.