Can you tell me what it was like working on this season? What moment most surprised you, and what do you feel like was the most impactful?

What shocked me maybe the most in the story was a quote from the perpetrator, Mike.

I think it was during the divorce trial, that he didn't believe in his heart that he raped her.

Mike is having sex with his unconscious wife.

What did he think that he was doing if he was not raping her? What did he think that was? That was what was most shocking to me.

Even after admitting to committing this crime, then go to a different court and say the exact opposite.

What is your favorite episode of the season, and why?

The courtroom, the criminal trial.

Tell me a little bit about what it's been like for you to work on this season as an editor and as a listener.

Uh, working on this season has been really fun, uh, just because there's been so much fascinating tape, and things that, uh, I was, I would just get audio from Carrie and Caitlin and realize, "How did they, how did they get this? This is, this is absolutely wild." So it's been a, a pleasure to hear just such a, a fully well-rounded story told in, in audio that I feel like is so, it's so hard to get.

It's so uncommon to have such a, a, like, deep access to a group of people and to, uh, an investigation within a police department, to have access to those files, too.

And then just the random sort of people involved in this story that, y- you know, nameless people who we, we can't name because they, you know, had, were involved in the affairs that Joel committed.

Having audio from those people and their interactions with Joel gives you a lot to work with.

And I actually told Carrie, "Don't tell me anything in advance.

Every episode I get, I want it to be new.

Right.