What, what ins- what did you see, uh, that inspired you to go down that path?

Well, yeah.

I mean, I, I had actually accidentally found a paper that was written in 1965, um, by a gentleman, uh, Dr. Mester, and, uh, he had done some experiments on laboratory rats, and they...

He had shaved off their backs of their, uh, hair, uh, their hairs off the back of the mouse.

And after a few, uh, weeks after applying some laser phototherapy, um, he found that instead of lasers causing cancer, he thought that, "Hey, let me just apply a lot of laser light on these, uh, mice and then see what happens." Well, instead of getting cancer or lesions or, you know, uh, bad stuff happening to them, he found that their hair grew back faster.

And so he was puzzled by that, and he wrote a paper about it that, look, low-level laser light...

I mean, we're talking, like, low-level, not high-powered laser that cuts, you know, uh, tissue or anything like that.

Um, how would you explain, uh, photobiomodulation to someone who has never heard of it, and what it happens at a cellular level when it comes to, uh, the red laser?

To me, where does your life go from there?

Yeah, I was there for about 10 years, and I did other technologies for the space shuttle.

I did my master's at that time.

And one of the things that was great is that my master's was paid by NASA.

I did it in computer engineering.

And at the time, there was this new thing, which was called Expert Systems.

We call it today AI, but my specialty was in expert systems, which is, we didn't dare call it AI back in 1989, 90.

They're always the ones pushing the next great thing, but nobody knows about it.