Is this an effective way of giving a pay rise without spending more? How do you weigh it up?

I think the first thing to acknowledge, Ingrid, is that this is following a three-year trial, as you said.

So the council has given this a go.

They've said, well, it hasn't affected our delivery or our productivity at all.

The staff like it.

We're getting good feedback and reduced turnover of staff during this period of time.

So they're making some evidence-based decisions which are helping to keep rates down.

OK, so you don't see the pendulum having swung back towards people being called back into the office and sort of less flexibility as we move on from COVID?

And that store owner, who might just be them and someone else who helps from part-time, needs to actually have, would they actually really get in trouble for that or is it?

The chances of it being a problem are very much dependent on the circumstances of the relationship.

So we know that of the 3,000-odd applications that were made to the Employment Relations Authority in 2025, about half a percent of those were brought by labour inspectors, if I have my figures right in my head.

And so we know that the chances of a government representative coming in And saying, hey, grocery owner with five staff, I want to see all of your records.

I want to see all of your documents and check that you're employing everyone.

That risk is really, really small.

MB is just not staffed enough to have labour inspectors on the beach like we have police sort of walking around and checking everything's OK.

How much of this stuff can employers do themselves? And how? Because I instantly think, chat GPT, give me a contract in New Zealand law that covers the bases.

And that store owner, who might just be them and someone else who helps from part-time, needs to actually have – would they actually really get in trouble for that, or is it –

The chances of it being a problem are very much dependent on the circumstances of the relationship.

So we know that of the 3,000-odd applications that were made to the Employment Relations Authority in 2025, about half a percent of those were brought by labour inspectors, if I had my figures right in my head.

And so we know that the chances of a government representative coming in and saying, hey, grocery owner with five staff, I wanna see all of your records, I wanna see all of your documents and check that you're employing everyone, that risk is really, really small.

MB is just not staffed enough to have labor inspectors on the beach like we have police sort of walking around and checking everything's okay.

The real risk is if you are in a high-risk industry or you employ a lot of migrants or there is some other signal to the government that potentially it is worth investigating you and checking to see what's going on.

The real risk is if an employee gets a bee in their bonnet about something minor or if you are doing something which is likely to disadvantage that employee, like firing them or changing their hours or changing where they work.

How much of this stuff can employers do themselves? And how? Because I instantly think, ChatGPT, give me a contract in New Zealand law that covers the bases.

And that store owner, who might just be them and someone else who helps from part-time, needs to actually have – would they actually really get in trouble for that, or is it –

The chances of it being a problem are very much dependent on the circumstances of the relationship.

So we know that of the 3,000-odd applications that were made to the Employment Relations Authority in 2025, about half a percent of those were brought by labour inspectors, if I had my figures right in my head.

And so we know that the chances of a government representative coming in and saying, hey, grocery owner with five staff, I wanna see all of your records, I wanna see all of your documents and check that you're employing everyone, that risk is really, really small.

MB is just not staffed enough to have labor inspectors on the beach like we have police sort of walking around and checking everything's okay.

The real risk is if you are in a high-risk industry or you employ a lot of migrants or there is some other signal to the government that potentially it is worth investigating you and checking to see what's going on.

The real risk is if an employee gets a bee in their bonnet about something minor or if you are doing something which is likely to disadvantage that employee, like firing them or changing their hours or changing where they work.

How much of this stuff can employers do themselves? And how? Because I instantly think, ChatGPT, give me a contract in New Zealand law that covers the bases.

Not that I want to quote anything religiously, but is there a limit to depending on whether you're a contractor or an employee as well?

Broadly, no.

So there are some quite highly regulated industries where there are some restrictions around how many hours you can do, kind of the length of time off shift, basically, before your next one starts.

So we're thinking trucking, like anything where there are some pretty gnarly safety regulations.

Broadly, though, there's no cap or limit on how many hours of work you can contract someone for.

Typically, we see 37.5, 40, 42.5 hour agreements as being full time.

We do see them up to 50.

how much what are the other particular things that are obvious that you know people would assume oh this is going to be looked after by the law but what are the things that you should make sure is in your employment contract that might not actually be covered by the law

Not that I want to quote anything religiously, but is there a limit to depending on whether you're a contractor or an employee as well?

Broadly, no.

So there are some quite highly regulated industries where there are some restrictions around how many hours you can do, kind of the length of time off shift, basically, before your next one starts.

So we're thinking trucking, like anything where there are some pretty gnarly safety regulations.

Broadly, though, there's no cap or limit on how many hours of work you can contract someone for.

Typically, we see 37.5, 40, 42.5 hour agreements as being full time.

We do see them up to 50.

Are there particular things that are obvious that people would assume, oh, this is going to be looked after by the law, but what are the things that you should make sure is in your employment contract that might not actually be covered by the law?

Not that I want to quote anything religiously, but is there a limit to depending on whether you're a contractor or an employee as well?

Broadly, no.

So there are some quite highly regulated industries where there are some restrictions around how many hours you can do, kind of the length of time off shift, basically, before your next one starts.

So we're thinking trucking, like anything where there are some pretty gnarly safety regulations.

Broadly, though, there's no cap or limit on how many hours of work you can contract someone for.

Typically, we see 37.5, 40, 42.5 hour agreements as being full time.

We do see them up to 50.

Are there particular things that are obvious that people would assume, oh, this is going to be looked after by the law, but what are the things that you should make sure is in your employment contract that might not actually be covered by the law?

So what's happening in financial and insurance? What's going on there?

Yeah, it's a couple of different stories there.

So when we're looking at what's happening in the insurance sector, there's a few different things.

Consumers are experiencing a pretty well-documented cost of living crisis, and many of them are choosing to go with less insurance or fewer insurance policies, so pretty straightforward there.

Interestingly, on the business side of things, since 2019, there have been year-on-year increases in the number of businesses being taken off the company's register, and each one of those is a customer who is lost for insurance providers.

And on top of that, you know, we've had, I mean, the phrase unprecedented times is pretty well worn right now.

There's been a lot of uncertainty for insurance providers to deal with.

So what are we doing? Are we killing hours? Are we killing headcount? What are we doing?

So what's happening in financial and insurance? What's going on there?

Yeah, it's a couple of different stories there.

So when we're looking at what's happening in the insurance sector, there's a few different things.

Consumers are experiencing, you know, a pretty well-documented cost of living crisis, and many of them are choosing to go with less insurance or fewer insurance policies, so pretty straightforward there.

Interestingly, on the business side of things, since 2019, there have been year-on-year increases in the number of businesses being taken off the companies register, and each one of those is a customer who is lost for insurance providers.

And on top of that, you know, we've had, um, I mean, the phrase unprecedented times is pretty [chuckles] well-worn right now.

So what are we doing? Are we killing hours? Are we killing headcount? What are we doing?

Yeah, it's a combination of those things.