Can you just talk about what that is, what your research is about? And I wanna actually talk a little bit about dying.

Sure.

Death doula, or end of life guide, there's lots of names for it.

This is something that people have done forever.

It's the person in your neighborhood or in your family who is not afraid to talk about the end of life, who, um, if you need help, they show up.

And that can be someone in your faith community.

Um, in my family, um, it was my mom.

[laughs] Yeah

What's the maybe most surprising example of patient-led innovation that you've come across?

I love to talk about diabetes as an example of the full stack of the patient led revolution, because they are people who are living with what looks like to most outsiders.

It looks like a solved problem.

Diabetes is a is a known condition and people have insulin and other drugs and devices that can help them with it.

But if you or someone you love actually lives with insulin requiring diabetes, you know it's a daily slog.

It was patients themselves who about 10 to 15 years ago began using the internet to share not only their ideas, but their questions with each other.

They said, we're not going to take this anymore.

And maybe then offer which archetype you think is sort of the most misunderstood or the most underappreciated or you want to shine a light on a little bit.