Yeah

... to keep a wine in good condition outside of vintage and getting it to bottle in the, in that condition.

So PJ was really influential.

PJ was really influential for me just on, he taught me a lot on how Brokenwood ran and where the vineyards were.

Like you sort of, you turn up to a new winery, just learning where the vineyards are, what they're called, what they're, what are they good for, what are they, is it a pick early block? Is it a pick later block? Like that IP takes a number of years to pick up.

It's, and it's really not, it's not out of a book or out of a standard operating procedure book.

It's sort of, um, it's by osmosis and just seeing it.

[laughs]