So to me, presence over perfection is a part of that growth process that I spoke on earlier, knowing to get out your own way and listen to your kid, because sometimes in that situation, you need to listen to the child come together to get a solution going so that's that that's what it presents over perfection because we're not perfect we're far from it and i don't even pretend to be perfect and i have no problem like being wrong in front of my kids you know what i'm saying so that that's what that means to me

about jesus presence over perfection for me um i mean i kind of look at it as how my dad was when i was growing up and he was always there for literally everything i mean when it came to for me i was i had you know youth bowling leagues growing up every single youth bowling league i had every every game i bowled every frame i bowled every shot i threw my dad was standing behind me So he set a great example of being there.

And even though he wouldn't come up, if I make a bad shot, make a mistake, he wouldn't be the one to run up and be trying to correct me.

He would just be there to support me.

And that taught me that it's more important at times to just be there to support your child, because that in itself is enough for them to look up in the crowd, see you there.

Even if they make a mistake, they're like, Dad's sitting right there.

It's okay.

So when it comes to being a caseworker or support officer at child support, I guess what would be the most effective way to really work with fathers or noncustodial parents, as we would call them?