It's difficult for founders probably in terms of negotiation and building a bit of hype around the idea to approach a customer and say do you need this one do you need this one so how is there a kind of strategic scheduling of appointment you can do with a customer saying let's explore together the idea but without saying i will force you to answer the question let's say in a rigid way and maybe get some totally like i

think a good sales meeting doesn't start with i can sell you this and that would you would you like okay I think a good sales meeting goes like, how is your business? What is good in your production? And then what doesn't work in your production? And then, ah, maybe I have a solution for that.

I have this product.

So it's the customer that explains you first.

Look, I'm doing this.

I'm making whatever product every day.

And each time I know that I'm losing value because of i'm i'm flushing a bunch of gold down the drain and then you say aha but but that's something i can help you with and and and that's where um uh the conversation turns to a much more interesting way and then when you say that uh then then you say do you want to try it the the questions already asked right like answer it the customer is going to try it because he just said he has a problem there whereas if you push a product on him he You can always say, well, yeah, I'm very busy.

But basically, which are your lessons learned you would like to share to the next generation of founders when it's time for them with an advanced material in their hand to put together a value price strategy?