So could I just ask you to take us back to those very early days and give us a little bit of a walkthrough of how these cat bonds first came about and maybe even if there was specific instances that prompted their creation?

Yeah, there's no question that There's no other question besides the fact that in 1992, Hurricane Andrew hit Florida, and it was a Category 5 hurricane.

And if you follow hurricanes, you know that they're listed alphabetically.

The names, everybody gets hung up on the names, but the A category hurricanes, A, let's think Andrew, means it was the first storm, named storm of the year.

People got caught, underinsured, and I think that people didn't, they hadn't had a big storm in a long time.

And so that storm resulted in $60 billion of damage.

That's in today's money.

well finally then um given your uh distinct viewpoints on this market what advice would you give to newcomers um inevitably there will be more newcomers to the cap bond space and any advice you might you might have for them steve