How did you get into this? How did you get into this field of business advisory, leading these groups, et cetera? What did you do before this or was this your first? leading groups your first career?

I was a corporate and commercial lender.

I actually have a double degree in accounting, a bachelor of science and a master's of science, but I only worked for an accounting firm about two years.

And that was as a consulting advisor.

So I was a corporate and commercial lender for a couple of money center banks.

And as the banks I was working for kept on merging or acquiring, I decided I needed to maybe look to do something else.

And so while I was in banking, one of my customers invited me to a breakfast meeting and there was a great presentation on selling and marketing.

Like good parents? So is there something that you would recommend the parents do or not do to avoid situations like that? Is it just not hiring those people? Or once you see they're not productive, you tell them ship up or shape out, shape up or ship out? Excuse me.