What would you say one of your most difficult pieces is that you've created that you've encountered some of this experience through?

There's a number of them, um, that have been difficult.

I would say the most...

One of the heaviest pieces that I, that I've created, I think in my repertoire, is a piece called Pop, Pop, Pop.

I oftentimes when I show that piece, I would tell people the words pop, pop, pop, and I would ask them, "What does it remind you of?" And I would get the full range.

I would get from popcorn, very whimsical, to someone saying, "It's the sound of a gun going pop, pop, pop." And I almost perform that piece many times, and sometimes I will just make the sound pop really loud into the microphone, and I would do it 41 times.

I literally would count.

And the question is, what advice would you give both to artists who are compelled to make challenging works that, uh, like the work that you're making, but then also, uh, to those who feel compelled to engage those types of work but don't know how to approach them? How do we begin to move forward in that area, if that makes sense?