I, I know that we've been through a lot, and that it's still an uphill climb, but I do need to know that the commitment is there, that you are gonna be there through the good times and the bad times, and that, um, we're gonna work through it all.

Lisa Nester Sorensen.

[laughs] I, I do commit to you, just like we did last Saturday.

No, a week ago Saturday.

[laughs]

...

but we renewed our vows.

And, uh, I love you completely, wholeheartedly.

So what are you afraid happens if you do have the conflict?

Hmm.

I think part of it would be, um, uh, me recognizing that, you know, I'm not good enough or I'm, uh, I'm failing in certain aspect, and I, I don't want to feel that way.

Uh, I want her to see me as the, the strong man, the strong lover man.

Um, and, uh, and again, just not knowing how to-

It can be just anything that comes to mind.

Um, the first, first thing that popped to my mind was from time to time, I would try to get inside her, her shell and to her to tell me how she felt about something.

And, and I obviously wasn't very good at it.

It can be just anything that comes to mind.

Um, the first, first thing that popped in my mind was from time to time, I would try to get inside her, her shell and to her to tell me how she felt about something.

A- and I obviously wasn't very good at it.

[laughs] But, but also, um, uh, I would get, you know, "I, I don't really wanna share about that." Um, so, so I would, I wouldn't, I wasn't able to penetrate that barrier.

So after a few times of that, you know, I kinda gave up.

Well, she's not gonna share, you know, I'm not gonna bother to-

So, so what comes up for you in that moment? Is it the same repeat theme? Like, what do you make it mean when you have a little bit of fear of, of expectation?

It's probably, uh, 'cause when we were... tried to get together, uh, it was actually before we divorced, um, a couple years ago, whenever it was, yeah.

[laughs]

Uh, but anyway, um, uh, born in North Carolina, grew up in Ohio, and then moved to Florida.

Been there for over 40 years in Florida.

Uh, and head back to North Carolina quite a bit.

I have a 96-year-old mom there that me and my brother helps take care of, so, uh, but it's good to be in Toronto.

Uh, and I appreciate the opportunity to be here today and learn a little bit more about myself and maybe some of the, uh, issues that I might have and, um, especially with, um, conflict avoidance.

I guess that's, um, something that's...

Just any of the outstanding themes that you s- you see looking back on, on your life growing up.